Trail Magazine interviews Yvon Chouinard

In April 2005, Trail magazine did a rare interview with the legendary Yvon Chouinard. With the kind permission from Trail, below are the words of wisdom that transpired.

"I Chose To Surf"

He invented modern climbing protection, he launched Patagonia and Black Diamond, and he grumbles a lot. But these days, it's all about the surf for 65 year old Yvon Chouinard.

Welcome back to Britain. When was the last time that you were here?

I can't even remember the last time I was in the UK. It was a long time ago. I used to climb in the Lakes 30yrs ago or so.

Anyone here you haven't seen in a while?

It was good to see (climbers and film-makers) Leo Dickinson and Brian Hall. I last saw Brian on the top of Ben Nevis in '74. When I started doing expeditions I preferred British to American ones- less whiners. I could relate a lot more with British climbers and I used to do a lot of stuff with Joe Brown and Hamish (MacInnes). They were a lot more fun.

How did you first meet British climbers?

A lot of those guys came over to Yosemite, particularly in the seventies. In fact, Don Whillans worked for me at Chouinard Equipment. I had to fir him though- he was an artful dodger. He didn't like to work to much.

Most people know Patagonia is an American company, but I'm not sure they would know which country to credit with an ascent if your name was attached to it. Are you a very nationalistic climber?

When it comes to climbing, I'm very anti-nationalistic. I've never taken an American flag to the top of anything. For me it's irrelevant.

Would you say a lot of your climbing ethics fall in line with the British mentality?

I don't believe in absolutes, but I'm against having a climb totally fixed. You know, fixing every pitch, making the climb democratic. For the sake of the rock, you just can't keep doing that. The British live with an island mentality- they know they have a limited resource so they protect it. The problem in America is we see the world as unlimited. When we run out of resources we head further west, and there are always more worlds to conquer. We're the big multinational corporation taking over the world, and it's the same with climbing: if you think the resource is unlimited you won't care about what you do and what you leave behind as you move on.

So do you do much climbing these days?

These days I spend most of my time surfing and fishing. I took a bad fall about 8 years ago, bouldering in Hawaii. I was climbing an overhang, pulled a bad hold and landed on my elbow and broke it in three places. I can still do fairly hard climbs, but the problem is I live in a place (southern California) where I can't climb on a regular basis: It's just to far away. I kind of made a decision I'd rather live next to the surf than next to climbing.

You must still have a lot of responsibility running Patagonia. What's a typical work day like?

Surfing and fishing is a work day! There are no typical office days. I have good managers and I can be gone for 2 months and I don't need to call into the office. Most businessmen call in every day because they want to feel indispensable. But I never wanted to be a businessman. The last thing I need is to be indispensable. It's bad management. I call my style MBA- managing by absence.

So where do you spend most of your time these days?

I spend a lot of my time traveling, especially during the surf season. I travel so much, on every continent, it's one of the reasons I'm so pessimistic about the environment. Some of my first ascents have completely fallen off. The Diamond Couloir on Mt.Kenya, which was a great ice climb 30 years ago, is completely gone.

Is it hopeless then?

No it's all about process. You have to forget about whether you're going to succeed or not. Patagonia spent three quarters of a million dollars trying to get people to consider the environment during the US election and at least I don't have any guilt about not doing anything. We had access to a lot of people, a lot of climbers and surfers, who had never voted before and I can sleep at night knowing I'm not just sitting on my ass.

What would you be doing if you were 20 today?

I'm happiest working with my hands and when I started I just happened to make products people liked. There are very few artists in the business today. I'm lucky I have a good eye for products, though it would be pretty tough to be innovating equipment today. When I was doing it, equipment was so crude it was easy to sit in the blacksmiths shop and make better gear. Now you need laser cutting machines and very sophisticated stuff. It's like coming up with a new brand of cola.

Any regrets?

The Eiger, Grand Jorrasses and the north face of the Matterhorn I regret not climbing those. I have no regrets in business.

Picture: Patagonia archives

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